Friday

what not to say

Nurse to me today at my follow-up after miscarriage OB-GYN appointment: "So honey, when are you due?"

50 comments:

DnB (Dana) said...

Uh, did you smack her?

mary c said...

Can you find a way to get off the mailing lists (formula survey you blogged about) I signed up as a lark almost a year ago and have had more junk mail from that than I can tell you. Every time I get a mailing now I think about you having to face all that in your mailbox.....

Leslie said...

Oh, I'm sorry she said that. I'll bet she felt bad when she realized. Hope you are recovering well.

Anonymous said...

well since Katie wanted to jerk around the formula companies for her own nefarious purposes it sort of serves her right that its come back to bite her in the butt.

Anonymous said...

anonymous above me....

Hate to see how naive you are but the Formula companies are no worse the large corps like Enron.

We are one of the only cultures who believe all the crap the Formula companies and hospitals would have us believe.

I guess you like Fox news too

Anonymous said...

Yes, it would also be wrong for a nurse to say that to a male patient.

Suzette said...

GGGGGGGRRRRRR! When I went in for my miscarrage follow up the nurse insisted she weigh me right behind a very pregnant patient. I asked her to let me wait a few minutes and she made some grumpy command about doing it now. So I stood there, un-pregnant and sad, behind a woman gloriously pregant and beaming with excitement.My amazement is that a nurse in this feild must see sad patients often; how can they be so insensitive? You can't fix stupid.

Jamie said...

It serves Katie right to get regular reminders in the mail about this much-wanted baby who died?? Have to say, anon, you've sunk to a new low.

I'm sorry, Katie. I hated dealing with questions like that after my miscarriages.

Anonymous said...

A hugely hurtful mistake,I am sure.I feel very bad about all of the pain around you lately.Things happen in 3's so maybe your luck will turn around after the new year. JCB

Leslie said...

Katie,

Is there not a way to block all these anonymous people who have absolutely nothing to contribute to the discussion here other than nastiness?

Netmom said...

Oh Katie, I'm so sorry... it was almost certainly an honest (though careless) mistake, but that doesn't make it hurt any less.

Anonymous said...

well she signs up for all these lists so she can use it to her own purposes, didnt think how unpleasant it might be to be getting this stuff in the mail if something happens. only thinks what a glorious opportunity she now has to promote her "lactivism" and now she has to deal with the consequences. oh well.

Anonymous said...

I could just tell she was gloating at a chance to cram her attachment parenting shit down everyones throat so its kind of fitting this happened.

firstimpressionist said...

Wow, some of these remarks are quite fitting given the title of this thread.

Anonymous said...

15 years ago I had an abortion - not something that I wanted to do, but something that was necessary (and a choice I've never regretted, although I regret that I had to make the choice). At the clinic they make you sit through a "counseling" session to ensure you know what you're doing. I was insulted by the whole thing, since I was an adult and wouldn't have been there if I hadn't known what I was doing. But you gotta do what you gotta do.

Anyway, the nurse asked me if I had been using birth control. I wanted to say "none of your damn business," but instead I answered her - "yes, a diaphragm."

To which whe replied, "it only works if you take it out of the drawer."

I remember vividly how much I wanted to slap her.

Anonymous said...

it works even better if you keep your legs closed. dont have sex if you arent willing to deal with a baby.

Anonymous said...

yes, it sort of reminds me of the numbskulls who asked me "why I wasnt nursing"? or the fucking Le Leche League idiots who made out like I was cheating my baby because I didnt run out and buy a non water mattress so we could do "the family bed". it is interesting that people who find it just horrible that someone would make other rude comments is someone who has absolutely NO problem being a part of something that makes rude comments to others. about something as stupid as breastfeeding and "attachment parenting". I did not know of Granju when I had my daughter thirteen years ago but her ilk pushed me over into full blown PPD. which no one recognized as such at the time. but I know it had a lot to do with the guilt heaped on me by idiots like her and their attitude that you are never quite good enough. I already had fears of losing a loved one due to some stuff in my family and here I had this dumb bitch from LLL making me feel like my kid would croak and it would be ALL MY FAULT for failing to do magic titty. not to mention the good Dr Sears (who is apparently in some hot water over a misrepresentation of some bogus health supplement these days...figures) a year later I was looking around on AOL for support and came upon, yes Ms Katie Allison Granju spouting off her big ugly yip condemning anyone who didnt agree with her on magic titty and "sleep sharing". yeah, she has a LOT of tact. boo hoo now that the shoe is on the other foot. frankly when I read about her daily hot baths, I thought thats probably what did it. they always tell you to stay out of hot or even warm water when you are preg. esp early on. didnt she know that? or is all her baby experience so fixated on "attachment parenting" and sucking tit that she missed that one. they mention it right there in "what to expect" but oh yeah, they are not supportive of "attachment parenting" and do not worship tits so I guess any info they have must be bogus.
frankly I find it pretty vindicating what Granju has and is continuing to go through. after what she and her ilk put me through. to tell people what to do in print is a biiiig responsibility. its not something to take on because you need the money (however given that apparently Ms Granju has no other job skills I can see why she might feel that desperation to write a book, any book, about any subject at all, never mind if its accurate or not) when you set yourself up as an authority (and yes, writing a book in the "how to" vein IS setting yourself up as an expert whether you choose to publically deny that or not) you are taking on that responsibility for people who might take your advice to heart and be misled. Frankly I am waiting for someone who overlaid their kid after reading some dumbshit attachment parenting author to sue the pants off of said author.

Georgia said...

Oh Katie- I'm so sorry! The nurses need to read the charts before they start asking questions...that's horrible.
I do hope you got a good follow-up report from your doctor.
You and Jon keep taking good care of each other-

Anonymous said...

(however given that apparently Ms Granju has no other job skills I can see why she might feel that desperation to write a book, any book, about any subject at all, never mind if its accurate or not)

Anonymous, you do realize that Katie is a successful TV producer and writer who also writes articles for magazines and newspapers and has written for other books, right? She sort of has a lot of job skills.

I am sorry you have had such a hard life (PPD is no fun) and are so angry and unhappy. However, you evident belief and hope that Katie is unhappy and a big loser is just, uh, wrong.

I know her and her kids. She has a happy home and wonderful husband in John, and great kids who everyone enjoys and who are close to both their parents and just great, nice, smart, exceptionally beautiful kids.

So again I am sorry for your misfortunes but you are batting zero if it gives you some sick solace to imagine that Katie is an unhappy, messed up person.

Anonymous said...

hey ppd anon--

When you buy any kind of self-help book it is up to YOU the reader, to look at the author's credentials and decide if his or her advice works for you. They don't come with moneyback guarantees or liability if their
advice doesn't help you.

If your ppd was so bad you needed professional help, not do it yourself self-help book advice.
Looking around on AOL is not a substitute for competent professional mental health counselling.

If you didn't already have low self-esteem nothing an LLL person could do would 'drive you into PPD.' And your gloating that KAG had a miscarriage because 'people like her made me sick' just proves that you are still very sick. Get some help. Get off the computer and go out and get some fresh air.

If something 'makes you sick' stay away from it. Don't keep coming back and picking at the scabs, honey.

Anonymous said...

oh but its SO much fun to pick on Katie. as for her job skills, at the time she wrote her book apparently this was her only source of income.
maybe I am just weird but when you write a book basically shaming people who dont "do it your way"..it DOES hold responsibility. if I give you advice, you take it and it turns out to be wrong, you have no legal recourse, however, being a decent person, I would be humbled enough to refrain from giving advice in the future. Katie is a big mouth know it all who happens to be wrong. the fact that her advice was not casually given but that she apparently was smug enough in her (false) sense of rightness to write a book, probably also prompted by her need for a positive cash flow, DOES put some responsibility on her. even the bible says that when you set yourself up as a teacher (and she has, despite her protests to the contrary) you are responsible. yes we have freedom of the press so any moron can publish a book if they can find a publisher whacked enough to publish them or they have the funds to self publish. but on the writer themselves there is a self responsibiliy. I had PPD before it was talked about. and yes the guiltathon from the AP shitheads sure helped. I had some predisposing stuff but being barraged with "you must do this or your kid will be mesed up" pushed me over the edge. and when it turns out to be false.... well.
yeah, people have miscarriages for all kinds of reasons and most seem pretty random but in Katies case I can think of nothing more fitting than if the ole baby factory has shut down and her and boy toy have to make due with teens

Anonymous said...

I always enjoy seeing bad things happen to AP types. vindicating.

Anonymous said...

Can someone please provide me with references from KAG's book that prove that she ever 'basically shamed people for not doing it her way.?'

Leslie said...

There's a lot of misrepresenting of attachment parenting philosophy coming from the mouth of anonymous. AP is about reading and responding to your particular child, so for example if your baby hates slings, you don't use one; if she can't sleep well with you and likes her crib, then that's where she sleeps.

Anyway, what kind od people parent "by the book" anyway? Do you lack an independent thought process. I'm the expert on my kids, not Katie or anyone else, although I might learn from them.

Anonymous said...

you people just dont get it do you?

Jane said...

No, YOU don't get it. You don't get that it is inexcusable to comment that having a miscarriage of a very much wanted child "serves someone right." You are a small, small person with a very small mind, who takes no responsibility for their own problems and instead blames someone else completely unconnected to you, who happened to have written a book. If you don't like what's written somewhere (in a book or on the internet) then don't read it. I hope you're not teaching your children to be so hateful.

h said...

jesus christ, people. have some respect.

sorry for your loss, katie. sorry, too, that your decision to blog your life yields comments like these; that's the unfortunate side effect of the personal blog.

Anonymous said...

its hate to be angry angry ANGRY that this shit nearly devastated my life? and not be just a LITTLE bit glad to see her getting hers? hey, I hope she finally DOES get preg and rolls on her baby and the ex takes the other three away.

Anonymous said...

I would like Miss Bitch to know how it feels when you have lost a good chunk of your family because they took such shitty care of themselves and some dumbfucks from the titty league are saying in their sickeningly sweet voices about all the risks your baby will now have because you (GASP) gave up and gave her formula. I would like that bitch to know what its like when you have had a long history of dysfunction in your family of origin that you are trying to overcome and some boob slinging cunt says "oh but their personalities are so different when you bottlefeed them, its just not the same". what goes around comes around bitch. maybe its not Katie because she wasnt around then but its her kind and when I stumbled on her book it was by FAR the most judgemental, meanspirited "AP" "guide" that I have ever seen. she makes William Sears look like a lap dog in print.

Anonymous said...

it would be bad enough if all this tit shit were true but its not. I think Katie just wants another baby so she can get her little fix of titty sucking for the next few years.she has three kids. which is more than a lot of people have. be grateful for what you have dumbfuck.

Anonymous said...

Wow,ppd anon,I wish that you weren't losing so much sleep over Katie.Getting so obsessively upset over what she believes can't be healthy for you.(I don't know of anything good that comes out of resentment).Maybe you might want to take all those negative feelings and do something good for someone less fortunate.Katie isn't perfect ,but she seems to be a good soul.I am sorry that you eperienced what you did.I am sure that it was very painful and seems to continue to be a not so good memory but geez,to be so hateful? Come on... JCB

Anonymous said...

you are making an assumption I am losing sleep? I dont think so. if I lose sleep its over something more important than this dim bulb.
I was knocked down flat from this crap and when I discovered one of the prime dispensers of this shit had a blog where she reveals every dumbass thing she does in her life (including her parenting faux pas which seem to be far far worse than failing to stick a tit in a kids mouth,...but hey thats all it appears to be about for her is tit. and sleeping in the same bed) hey, its open season....
I wonder when idiots like Katie will begin to take responsibility for the ways in which they have led people astray? how many women have been pushed over the edge by thinking they have to be more more more thanks to "attachment parenting philosophy"? how many marriages have broken up because "attachment parenting philosophy" drove a wedge between the parents? a lot of times the person who gets into this stuff is someone who has had a very unnurturing childhood and they are grasping for what healthy parenting looks like. they have no inner radar to sift the extreme from the reasonable (fuck "instinct"..it can so easily be clouded by life experience, childhood, etc etc..."instinct"..is a pretty lousy indicator in my book). and yeah I have seen marriages break up over this shit. mine came close but thank God we are still together and doing well.
how many babies have died because they were rolled on? How many of those will Katie stand before God and take an account for because it was HER book that encouraged the person to put a newborn in bed with them where it got smothered? hmmmm?
the "oh its not HER fault you believed her' sounds suspiciously like the idiots who make shit like "Grand theft auto" and then act all surprised that it pushes unstable kids over into actually acting out the crimes. or rappers who sing about sex and drugs and gangstas who then blame the parents for not keeping their kids in line when their music, while not the only factor, definately played a role in where the kid went with their lives. where is the responsibility? even though free speech says people CAN write anything they want (hey look at OJ) does that mean a responsible person just spews stuff out so they can keep a positive cash flow?
so yeah, I hope Katie gets hers. I hope all the stuff she has inappropriately shared with the world comes back at her to bite her in the ass. the level of personal information that this woman reveals to perfect strangers is very telling: she has no boundaries. and boundaries, baby, are what its all about. I have seen in most of the "AP" people I have encountered a very poor sense of boundaries whether it be their own, other adults or their children. if they HAD boundaries in the first place they would realize just how much shit this AP is and that its not a matter of either "AP" or neglect your child. they would see the shades of gray in there. but because they are serious cases of arrested development, they dont. and I would say an almost forty year old who dresses, parties and acts like a college student and who marries a guy closer in age to her son than herself probably has some growing up to do. and when boy toy realizes that the only kids he is ever going to have are some teenagers that are almost off to boarding school he may just move on to someone his own age.

Anonymous said...

and how do you know what I do with my spare time? how do you not know that I am NOT doing good for those less fortunate? is it so shocking that maybe I could have an axe to grind with someone whose ideas fucked up my life and yet still be out there doing some good stuff?
actually bashing attachment parenters probably IS doing good in the world. its saving peoples sanity, marriages and preventing them from killing their own kids by accident. or pulling an Andrea Yates.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous, we all know more about you from your repulsive and all too frequent rantings on this blog all the time than we do about Katie. You scare me. You really do. I fully expect to someday find out that you have done something terribly violent in "real life".

Anonymous said...

I might further add that theres a HUGE difference between "not being perfect" and having the audacity to make a good chunk of your lifes work minding other peoples parenting business. and then being surprised when there is a backlash.
I am not perfect, I cook bad meals sometimes, yell at my kids, dont do things that I know I should do sometimes..but thats NOT the same thing as invading peoples lives by telling them how they should parent. like I said, I remember Katie years ago on AOL. she was very vitriolic about anyone who didnt believe you should parent the way she did. very nasty. I sure didnt tangle with her because I could just see the way she chewed up and spit out anyone who didnt believe as she did about the holy trinity of breastfeeding, "sleep sharing" and "attachment parenting". ding dongs like her who claim that anything other than her way is practically child abuse actually blur the lines when REAL child abuse occurs.

Anonymous said...

practically the second Katie found out she was pregnant she couldnt wait to use this pregnancy to further her little agenda. so I find it quite quite fitting that now its going to be just a tad bit painful for her to go clean up her little mess since she just couldnt wait to cram her lactivism down everybodys throat.
and to be honest I dont get why someone who has three children wants more. one kid I can see. a second so you have more than one I can see. but after that, i would think its just gravy and you are glad that when there is so much infertility out there that you have what you have.

Anonymous said...

no you know NOTHING about me. you THINK you do. because in your proper little mind nice people wouldnt get all ticked off. they would just say oh never mind. and had I not stumbled on Ms Granjus blog I doubt I would waste my time. its just easy. heck I didnt even write letters to the editor until you could do it online .too much work.
no the people who blow up are always people who suck it in and keep a grin on their face and are not honest about their feelings. which doesnt fit me at all.
thanks for analyzing me from what you think are a few clues. but you are wrong

Anonymous said...

this is sort of the same satisfaction that restaurant workers get when they pick their noses into the food of difficult customers. its not some serial killer or something genius.

Anonymous said...

anon you are truly one gross, messed up woman. i feel so bad for your children. not being breastfed is truly the least of their problems.

Anonymous said...

you are making a HUGE leap from the fact that I have some issues with Granju here to what kind of a parent I am now arent you?
lets even assume that maybe I am not handling this in the most mature manner possible (although I bet there are a LOT of people that would THINK what I dared say out loud but they would be too afraid of being called mean or worse....) so does it automatically follow that I must just be some hate filled witch who treats everyone badly? nope. at most it means maybe I could handle stuff better with people I believe to be a pox upon this earth.

Anonymous said...

Oh brother,I can see how strongly you feel about Katie,anon. I was not particularly into AP parenting either.I just winged it by my gut and i am sure that I made many poor judgement calls due to my youthful inexperience.(I have never been one to be a sheep-blindly following any crowd.)I don't remember Katie's beliefs from the past so I can't say that she was judgementally mean-spirited and even if she were,I would chalk it up to that idealisticly ,youthful- inexperience attitude that we all have suffered from at some point .However, I do see that you are holding a seriously nasty grudge.I feel sorry for your pain,I really do.I bet Katie feels bad that her choices and beliefs have caused you so much pain, as well.(Anyone with a semblance of compassion would.)What I don't understand is why you would choose to harbor so much anger and resentment when we are all just trying to do what we feel is bestfor our children.Don't we all have the smarts enough to know that there is no real expert on anything like this? Why would you allow other peoples opinions to control how you feel about yourself and how you do things?I think that,that is what you might want to examine.Maybe you should step back and realize that projecting your anger about how you have allowed others to make you feel about yourself is not doing you or anyone else any good.Isn't the responsibility of being a follower of anything in the lap of the follower?You have to realize that no one can make you feel bad about yourself unless you empower them to do so.You may have been in a very fragile state of mind at the time, and I understand that,but you seem to want to blame the world(and Katie) because of it.As wrong as you feel the AP believers and the LLL are is how very,very wrong you are to wish another human being ill will and suffering.Have a peaceful Thanksgiving,my friend. JCB

Anonymous said...

I think you are wrong about one thing here. and that is that Katie feels bad about her actions causing another pain. if you read what these nutjobs say its all a subtle blame game. (see my post under spanking re: the "mind fuck"). THEY arent at fault if their absolutist views pushed a vulnerable person over the edge. its YOUR fault for being vulnerable in the first place.
yeah, perhaps I should let this go, however the satisfaction I have gained by seeing the shit Katie has brought on herself has helped a great deal to move me along. that and the fact that I am painfully aware that I have stuff I need to be doing that is more productive than venting here (I dont get these bloggers who must spend hours and hours online...I mean have they no lives outside the internet??? who has time to spend the time online that they obviously must. I check my mail, check a couple of blogs and look up stuff I need to look up and I am off) when I ever read that this woman who thinks she is gods gift to parenting was dumb enough to be taking hot baths during her early pregnancy, yeah, it was sort of vindicating. come on...when someone has acted all superior like and like you are wrong and they are right blah blah blah and then they turn around and do something unbelievable in the area in which they were claiming they knew better than you doesnt it sort of give you some satisfaction? I feel sorry for her kids because they are going to turn into smug no it alls like her. maybe thats the reason her first marriage ended is that her first husband got pretty sick of that attitude pretty darn quick. I looked at his blog and he seems like just a normal car crazy guy. her new one on the other hand sounds just like her. and because he is so young he probably looks up to her instead of them being on the same footing. I have read, and maybe its true in this case, that people (male or female) who marry much younger are looking for hero worship because someone their own age aint going to provide that. whereas a much younger person automatically looks up to the older one.

Anonymous said...

I agree that it might be a little satisfying to see that someone who professes something that you disagree with is disproven,but I am not so sure that I would take it to such a low level (if you know what I mean.)It's just not so good for your own psyche because then you get sucked into a negative vacuum.I truly believe that Katie would never wish anyone such ill-will.I can't imagine her using strong words like you have chosen.I would be very surprized if you could show me that she has vented her anger as viciously as you have.She is much more politically correct than that.(Actually I feel kinda bad even having this conversation now because I feel like I am talking about her behind her back-sorry Katie.)I don't know about the husband thing.I married a guy several years younger(second marriage)and I wasn't really looking for someone to idolize me.Hell,I was just hoping to find someone to love me and to share my life with.I think that Katie and Jon felt like that as well.It gets pretty lonely out there in the single world.I would venture to believe that they have alot in common other than age and they admire oneanothers accomplishments.It is so hard to find a decent guy no matter what age you are and I am happy for them.Are they perfect?No,but maybe they are perfect for EACH OTHER.I married a guy much younger (been married to him for 16 yrs)and I can tell you that he is a very strong-minded individual that never really looked up to me in that way.We just happened to meet, and fell in love because we had similar views,the same sick sense of humor and liked alot of the same things.The age thing only became an issue when his Italian momma found out that I was not a virgin- and that was HER issue not ours (considering that I had a young child at the time!)I have to give Jon a little more credit than that.An intelligent guy who gets involved with an older woman thinks long and hard about marrying someone with a ready made family.Trust me on that one.I really don't think that anyone looking to idolize someone would want to share that person with 3 kids.I just wish that you would stop gloating over Katie and Jon's misfortune because it is very hurtful.I am so sorry that you still feel so strongly.Maybe you should just put it to bed now and not even worry about what is on Katie's blog anymore because it bothers you too much .Could you please let the anger go and try to forget about that part of your life because you seem to be too intelligent and have too much going for yourself to waste your time ruminating something that you can never go back and change. JCB

spiney said...

"(I dont get these bloggers who must spend hours and hours online...I mean have they no lives outside the internet??? "

says the anonymous person who just took the time to type nearly a small novel about her hate for KAG on various comment pages of this blog.

Anonymous said...

well you may have a point about the "letting go". its just ya know..the internet makes it so EASY. I mean who would bother writing some author who pissed you off via snail mail??? who knows if they would read it and they would probably just put it in the round file after you spent all that time and effort to write it and mail it. the "telling someone off' that most of us just fantasized about prior to the internet is now a reality....
as for the political correctness..I hate political correctness. it encourages people to be dishonest and put on their best face instead of dealing with what they are really thinking and feeling and working with it. I grew up around a lot of people who were very "nice" but played the nastiest little mind games, all with a big ole grin on their face, which left you wondering what the hell was wrong with YOU because YOU were not feeling as good about them as you thought you should be given their "niceness". and hey they were even doing all sorts of social do goodism so one should REALLY have felt warm fuzzies instead of cold pricklies. yeah..the "mind fuck"...the second I heard that expression I knew that was exactly the thing to describe that phenomenon. PC to me is just the institutionalizing of that bullshit. all I can say about Katie not acting in such a bad way: have you read her book??? I am not going to play the game of having to provide quotes; anyone can read it for themselves. she is pretty vicious about people who dont parent as she does. very guilting. very "mind fuckish". so she says it in a more civilized manner. maybe thats worse because unless you are really on top of things the screwed upness of it all can slide right past you. at least you know where I stand.
I rather find it hard to wish someone well like her. its hard not to sit here and hope that she who seems to think that anyone who does not adhere to her weird parenting standards is borderline abusive; its hard to not sort of hope that her ex DOES take her to court as an unfit parent and take her kids. and that she wont be able to have any more. sort of cosmic justice for all the people (cant believe I am the only one) she and the other AP/breastfeeding police helped into a nice case of PPD or divorce or even god forbid rolling on their baby (I have heard, from ER nurses that its not as uncommon as you think but because of the legal ramifications they spare the parents the real diagnosis and its labeled as SIDS. pressure from the AP nutsos keeps the whole thing from being brought out because any time anyone says anything there they are screaming and knashing their teeth about how nothing happened to THEIR kids and we are just so uptight in America and blah blah blah)
yeah, I have a lot of stuff to do..I appreciate your not siding with Katie like her other little flunkies and not seeing that even if I may not be going about it the right way, I DO have some valid points here.
sorry about the older person thing. it probably DOES work out. but Katie DOES seem like kind who would prefer her men eating out of her hand and easily moldable.

katie allison granju said...

Katie DOES seem like kind who would prefer her men eating out of her hand and easily moldable.

Damn straight ;-)!!

Anonymous said...

After having married an older guy,divorcing him,and then marrying a younger guy, my motto is now "Get 'em young -train 'em right!" Works for me...JCB

Anonymous said...

you're probably just kidding around. but if you seriously believe that marriage is about finding someone like you and training them to be more like you...well isnt that just the reverse of what women have been griping about for years?
personally I prefer to see it as an equal partnership.
to be honest, my husband is the one who figured out the AP stuff was shit. he threw Dr Sears book in front of a snow plow going past the house. he said he felt like a demon had entered our house. he was right. thank god I listened to him.
I dont pick on Dr Sears because he is not so available online as Katie. but I had a HUGE gloatfest when I read in consumer reports a few months ago that he was in some hot water for misrepresenting "juice plus" with all sorts of unsubstantiated testimonials.
besides, Martha Sears always looks like she has a gigantic pole up her ass.

The Bob said...

Anonymous, your ability to miss when people are joking -- particularly Katie, with whom you seem to have a strange and unhealthy obsession, is pretty remarkable.

get a life.

Anonymous said...

uh I think I DID say that they were "probably joking" on this one. or cant you read?