This morning the AYSO soccer sign-ups for fall were held at the local Greek Orthodox church. After I got Elliot all signed up and was leaving, I saw a car in the parking lot with a bumper sticker that read:
"Orthodoxy: Proclaiming the truth since A.D. 33"
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I don't want to sell anything, buy anything, or process anything as a career. I don't want to sell anything bought or processed, or buy anything sold or processed, or process anything sold, bought, or processed, or repair anything sold, bought, or processed. You know, as a career, I don't want to do that.
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6 comments:
yeah, I have seen this sticker. I used to be greek orthodox and its a bunch of man made legalism despite appealing to a certain logic that they can trace back to the time of christ (the meaning of the bumper sticker...that they are the original church). the day I left the orthodox church was the happiest day of my life. it is just like a cult.
Dear Anonymous...
I'm so sorry that you had such a bad experience in the Orthodox Church that you were led to believe it to be a cult. I hope that someday you will explore other parishes and find that you're wrong. I am Antiochian Orthodox..converted with my entire church in 1987...our parish came into Orthodoxy from a place extremely close to being cult-like. Legalism to the core. Interfered with my life as a young teenager and many of my friends as well, some of which are still healing from that type of "worship". Yuck. The one thing that I love the most about the Orthodox faith is all of the tools available to me to bring me closest to God-some work for me, and some don't. There's NO judgement in our parish. We have drug/alcohol addicts...we've dealt with abused children, affairs, divorce, you name it, we've seen it. The Church is a place for the sick to come and receive healing. Not a place to be judged. Again, I'm sorry that your experience was so bad. And I pray that you'll give it another go. Orthodoxy is beautiful and not about man-made legalism. Many blessings
actually we did the whole antiochian convert crap. we left. they just didnt know what to do about someone who "left the one true church" someone who wasnt buying the line about "this is the only church that is the fullness of the faith" now, to be honest, we are just regular evangelicals. it was very hard to leave, it was like what I have heard people say about leaving other cults. the orthodox churches seemed to come in two flavors: ethnic and nominal and the church exists to perpetuate whatever ones own brand of ethnicism is OR convert and crazymaking. I read all the books, Peter Gilchrist (I think thats his name..etc etc) really I think what it is is a lot of these converts never really "got" what christianity was about, it was all outer directed or "magic solutions" directed and so they found orthodoxy and rather than fix their distorted view of the bible it was just blame blame blame.I really sort of unraveled when Franky Schaeffer came to the church we were at at the time and I just wasnt buying what he was saying and I also knew what he was saying about evangelical churches did not match my experiences and was pretty close to being out and out lies. I still struggle with anger at the orthodox priest who at the point in my life when I needed God the most just ripped the whole thing out from under me by pretty much saying everything I had thought about a close personal rel with God as an evangelical was a lie.
Wow. How sad for you. Father Peter Gillquist, who I know quite well, has written many books.
As you know, because you've read his books, we stumbled upon Orthodoxy after seeking THE Church for years. A group that started out as a bunch of men and women who didn't believe in organized religion! :) Amazing. And, I'm interested to know who you think we are blaming? I'm not sure what you meant by that comment. There's no one to blame for anything. There's no judgement about anything. We just found the most fullfilling and spiritually sound place to commune with Christ and the saints! How awesome!
Lord have mercy.
I reread your comment here about "that type of worship"...yeah lets blame a dysfunctional legalistic church on "the type of worship" instead of for the heart issue it is.
its interesting because there are Catholics (the Hahns spring to mind) who underwent the same journey. they felt just as "led" about the "true church" as the orthodox converts did. since they cant both have found "the one true church" that leads one to believe that perhaps they werent as "led" as they think they were. I didnt have your typical convert story, it was more a marriage thing but really I never bought into it. from day one. I remember stuffing down a lot of doubts the day I was chrismated and doing a lot of good self talk. I just couldnt admit it for a long time. I finally said to myself, after years of frustration and recieving answers that felt like a load of rationalization to me (oh no we dont pray to Mary...oh yeah...then what about "most holy theotokos save us..."and a long drawn out rationalization about how that wasnt REALLY saying what it sure sounded like it was saying) I bought into the idea that I had been "brainwashed" as an evangelical which was not true. it tooks years to leave because of course we were told that "if you have seen the light and you leave God will judge you harshly". my husband grew up in one of the monophysite churches and had NO idea that this was any different and he was trying to "go back" to unfinished business but in the end he did not buy it either. after initially going along with all they said, even when it countered what I knew to be true, I started to think for myself. and pray. something I hadnt done in years other than in a rote prayer book fashion. NO WHERE in orthodoxy was I ever told to just start telling god the truth in my heart as a path to freedom. it was always about repeating the same phrases over and over or staring at icons. ironically just as much "religious" solutions as what a lot of the converts were fleeing. after hearing all the yap about how evangelicals were so "shallow" with their worship I sat there through a sermon, not about how to live a christian life, but about how nitpicky God supposedly is about every single freakin thread in the priests vestments and on the alter...NOT. that was about a week before I left. In the end I had the disturbing thought that what if all these converts were asking the wrong question? what if the idea of a "one true church" isnt even the question they need to be asking?
after being out a few years I also thought upon the fact taht the churches so many of these people came out of were really screwed up. they were NOT healthy churches. and yes, healthy evangelical churches DO exist. I go to one of them. it is not fluff. our pastor has had many many people leave because of the stands he has taken. we are taught how to walk with jesus and discipleship is very big in our church. there is a lot of stupidity in the evangelical world, I have experienced a lot of it personally, but if you read scripture its pretty apparent that that was the case all along: people had some funky ideas along with the people who were well grounded. I remember reading Jon Brauns book about spiritual warfare, I bought into it at the time but looking back when he lists all the things in the evangelical world he tried and failed, not one of them is the biblical model...its a lot of magic thinking: the weekend seminars that are supposed to fix all that is wrong for you, etc etc. there is nothing he found in orthodoxy that shouldnt be in any church. the whole spiritual father business is nothing more than discipleship..something many churches eschew in favor of quick fix teaching. scripture teaches confessing your sins "one to another" NOT to a single spiritual authority figure. so they found good discipleship in the orthodox church which led to success in spiritual victory: what does this say: that we should all become orthodox (which has many many scriptural errors in their teachings) or that perhaps the bulk of evangelical churches teach fluff and need to focus on less glamorous basics such as well, discipleship and confession and repentence from sin. the fact that your church was so weird when you converted is a major red flag to me. when one is not operated from a place of health the decisions they make are not going to be those of spiritual health. my suspicion is you all went from one form of unhealthy christianity to another.
along with the Tim Lahayes and Pat Robertsons there are just a whole crop of incredibly insightful spiritually mature evangelicals out there. they may not be the ones leading the pack at christian bookseller conventions but they are there. the fact taht that there is a lot of idiocy in the evangelical world along with it does not mean that the orthodox church has cornered the market on truth. there was a lot of stupidity there too..I had a friend who joined "ROCOR" and I had to just leave her alone for awhile because I just couldnt take the dicussion any more. it had nothign to do with God. it reminded me of when I first started going to church (I grew up Jewish) and I was an episcopalian (the christian kind, not the amalgam of whatever strikes your fancy kind) and church just grew so wearying because it was not positive, it was not about God and how to have a relationship with Him and grow spiritually; it was all about what was the lates outrage this week and defining all the fences theologically speaking. it was very prideful.
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