This article from the New York Times. attempts to make the case that the desire some folks have to see kids behave in public places, like restaurants, is a battle between those of us with children and those without. The breeders vs. the childfree.
Wrong.
I am a breeder, for sure, with three kids and a passel of nieces and nephews I'm often running around with, but I do not allow my kids to be obnoxious in restaurants, stores, etc. If one of them falls apart (which sometimes happens with even the best behaved children), we leave. It's as simple as that.
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I don't want to sell anything, buy anything, or process anything as a career. I don't want to sell anything bought or processed, or buy anything sold or processed, or process anything sold, bought, or processed, or repair anything sold, bought, or processed. You know, as a career, I don't want to do that.
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17 comments:
Your kids are really nice to be around, even for a childless guy like me.
Problem is, you're one of the few with that attitude. Most "breeders" view having to leave (or even discipline/control their children) as an infringement on their right to be in a restaurant/airplane/grocery store.
I agree with anonymous #2. Most "breeders" seem to think it's the cutest thing since Hello, Kitty! to let their toddler scream louder than the engine of a military jet while others are trying to enjoy dinner or a movie.
Restaurants have "smoking sections," and I've often wished for a "no screaming baby" section. After a long day at work, I want to relax if I'm eating out, not try to outscream a toddler at the next table so my dining companion can hear me.
I whole heartely agree with anonymous poster #2. Unfortunately you are the minority. My husband and I are childfree by choice and loving it. We aren't anti-child by any means (we love our neices, nephews, friends' kids, etc.) but I can't STAND when I'm in a public place and a kid throws a tantrum and the parents acts like nothing is happening. I have even had a child come up to me in a department store and hit me. When I started to verbally reprimand the kid (saying "Hitting is wrong. It's not nice to hit.) his mother told me to mind my own business and then did NOT say a thing to her child at least as far as I could see. I hope, Katie, that more parents become like you and learn to respect those around them when they're with their kids.
With this said, I don't even think you have to be childfree to want relative peace and quiet in a restaurant/grocery store/boutique/etc.
It goes both ways, though. As a parent, I have also been given nasty looks for nursing my (quiet, adorable, not bothering anybody) baby in a restaurant and that's wrong too.
Katie
Another pet peeve is children who are allowed to run free in a restaurant. I've had them come up to my table, pick up silverware and condiments, ask to try my food, and interrupt the dinner conversation. And if you've ever waited tables (I have), there's nothing cute about having junior barrel into your legs when you're carrying a large tray of hot food or beverages. That's also dangerous for junior.
That's a huge pet peeve of mine too. My children are required to remain seated in restaurants. This is true even if kids we are with - like another family eating with us -- are allowed to get up and move around the restaurant. I've been a waitress and it's hard enough to carry food without worrying about running in to someone...
Katie, hardass mama
Anonymous #3 posting again....
I agree that the tolerance goes both ways. If I had my way, the childfree and the parents would make a peace pact. Here would be some of the terms.
Parents agree to not let their kids run amok in public places.
Childfree folks agree to accept that breastfeeding is a part of life and get over it. No more mean looks.
I could go on, but I won't.
I too am a "breeder" (guess four children makes that a reality) but we have never let our children run wild in public. When inappropriate behavior happens and it often does, we leave. END OF STORY. I am also the first person to cast a dirty look when someone doesn't deal with their child's inappropriate behavior. We are not in the minority where I live. Most people seem to know where it is ok to take their kids and where it isn't. Most of my friends also seem to know what their children are capable of handling. Bad behavior is rarely the child's fault.
To a parent of small children, there is no sound sweeter than the kids at the table next to yours throwing a fit . . . :-)
i get all this, but being a single parent to an upcoming toddler, I simply cannot abide by these strict rules to "just leave" or "keep your kid in her seat." For instance, when we are in an airport, we usually have to get somewhere just like everyonbe else, we don't come there to play gaames aand be annoying, but, the fact of the matter is that mama and baby have to go somewhere, aand mama just cannot control the every whim of a toddler. If you don't like that very apparent fact, then you can just upgrade or deal with it- that's my theory upon becoming a mother.
Um, single anonymous, if you can't control your child, maybe you shouldn't be a parent. That's part of what being a parent is about: taking responsibility for your child and teaching him/her manners and good behavior.
A retired friend with grandchildren he adores told me after reading the NY Times article that he now chooses to eat out only in smokey bars or very expensive upscale restaurants when he wants a quiet meal and conversation because the problem of unruly children - or I should say inconsiderate parents - has gotten so pervasive in other eateries. It doesn't mean he dislikes children or is anti-family. It means that we have a problem that is more serious than just restaurant manners. Parents - learn to be parents. Children actually respect that.
Well, its harder than that to control a child. And, sometimes, the best you can do is move, oh, off to the side.
Anyone who can make a blanket statement like "you just control your child", probably hasn't had much experience with children. You can't "control" a child in the sense that they're a device. As Katie pointed out, kids melt down. And, being kids, they're unpredictable in the both the joyous and crappy sense of the word. We're talking about itty bitty people who are not completely rational, impulsive at times, and really not all that good at thinking things through. You may soothe, rock, cajole, redirect, or offer benign bribes.
I tend to take pity on someone who is clearly trying to get baby or child to hush. And true, sometimes you don't have the option of leaving, such as an airplane.
And just how are you supposed to stop a kid from crying once they've started? Hand over mouth? A good smacking? When you're extremely upset, as an adult, is it helpful for folks to tell you to calm down? Probably not, you probably have to remove yourself from the situation and get a grip.
And sometimes, with a child, odd as this may seem, they'll do things for attention. So ignoring them might be in order.
And I think everyone knows some childless folk who have these things they would or wouldn't do. Parents get more pragmatic. I knew a pastor who said, that before he had kids, he had a sermon that he called "Ten ways to raise a great kid". After he and his wife had three kids he said he had to change it a bit to "Here are some suggestions, that may or may not work, and we found that #2, 3, and 7 worked with Hannah, while 1, 5 and 10 worked sometimes with Samuel."
So can't we all just get along . . . especially if my kids are going to be your social security workers . . . be nice or it'll be nothing but 60 minutes nursing homes. :-)
To me there is a BIG difference between a child melting down and screaming in a place where a parent can choose to leave (a restaurant) and a baby crying inconsolably somewhere where a parent must be (stuck on airplane). In the first instance, I think the parent needs to think about the other folks in the restaurant. In the second instance, the folks on the airplane need to be empathetic and understanding toward the parent who is certainly doing everything she can to comfort and console her child.
This just goes both ways.
Katie
Yes, there's a difference between kids crying on a bus or plane and parents who let their children run amok in restaurants, movie theatres, etc. Single anonymous seems to think this is okay and people should just "deal with" an out-of-control child. I have seen kids in department stores, airports, and other public places raising hell while their parents seemed to care less. This isn't a good situation for anyone, and it certainly opens a window of opportunity for pedophiles when they can see that the parent is too busy yapping on their cellphone, etc., that they can't monitor their child. No, children shouldn't be strapped to their seats, and I feel bad for parents on planes whose tired, road-weary children have meltdowns, but it is your responsibility as a parent to keep a watchful eye and teach your child how to act in public.
you know, my mother sent me this article asking what I think of it. there are multiple levels. I think there are entitlement parents who think that everyone should put up with intolerable behavior. we have all seen it. the people who should leave but dont or who bring their children to museums or fine dining establishments, oblivious to the fact that some settings do not scream out "kid friendly" (on the other hand, the people who give hate stares when you are just trying to finish your grocery shopping in a half hour with a screaming toddler so you can get to pick the other kid up from school on time and then cook dinner..yes Katie some people DO cook dinner..from scratch yet at times....those assholes can just bite me..I am not going to leave the store and get expensive take out that night just so you can have some peace and quiet..deal with it) of course the entitlment mentality spreads through many many levels of society, not just those related to parenting. a lot is the setting. there is a huge difference between a nice restaurant and a grocery store. there are also people who have no sense of when it is appropriate to get a babysitter. see prior note about screaming toddler..the best way I found to deal with that one was to leave baby with a sitter and shop less frequently. of course the in store child care center was a godsend once said child turned two. (of course some have been frightened by le leche league that their child will hate them and they wont "bond" if they get a sitter every now and then)those who are smug about "controlling" children tend to have very mild mannered children. their kids behave in every setting so anyone whose children dont do likewise is obviously a bad parent. they are almost as bad as the childless who are silently giving advice to every parent aroudn them inside thier heads. news flash: some kids just cant handle it. not every child can sit still (or else why do you think they are handing out ritalin like candy bars on Halloween for every child that doesnt fit that nice little mold.some kids just cant. and those parents need to get babysitters. if they cannot...well...maybe someone needs to volunteer to help them.) as far as the single mom...she sounds overwhelmed. which might be a good argument against doing things that could get you in the single parent boat but that doesnt do a lot to help her now. maybe the gripers who are giving her hate stares would be better off asking if they could help her; get some food from the snack bar for her, offer the child a magazine or something. nah..easier to just be critical of her. on the other hand, some people just are hateful about children. check out osme of the childfree by choice websites if you dont believe me. there are a lot of people out there that if children do anything but sit like small robots it will piss them off. I have heard elderly people bitching about thier tax dollars going to schools. just because they will be dead soon and it doesnt affect them anymore they would rather spend their money on a new RV than on helping out the next generation. and check out the housing trend in child free developments which in many parts of the country are pushing families out of the housing market so that many whoose children are grown can enjoy a neighborhood devoid of toys on the front lawns and the occasional sounds of neighborhood teens playing basketball. while some of it may be bad parenting, some of it is definately uptight people who are childfree for selfish reasons and extend that selfishness to any child who crosses their path.
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