tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9504620.post797429129757810927..comments2023-10-31T12:05:02.496+00:00Comments on katieallisongranju: giving birthUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger36125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9504620.post-42665780417295376322007-03-14T16:53:00.000+00:002007-03-14T16:53:00.000+00:00don't be ridiculous: I didn't have a c section and...don't be ridiculous: I didn't have a c section and my OB was right there both times. Not the whole time obviously because there were other patients but certainly enough and certainly at the birth itself. Yes, I know people who have had home births and are on cloud nine about how great it was. I have heard all their arguments and statistics and I don't buy it. Because I ALSO know a couple of people whose homebirths went wrong and had to transfer who lamented having been talked into this foolishness by the homebirth brigade. One of them came very very close to the death of both her and her baby and just cringes thinking about the whole thing. There are a lot more of those stories out there if you care to listen and not redefine them as insignificant like most homebirth "advocates" do.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9504620.post-42509123066739605312007-03-13T13:08:00.000+00:002007-03-13T13:08:00.000+00:00Have you ever tried to have a homebirth, do you kn...Have you ever tried to have a homebirth, do you know homebirthers or are you speculating? I can tell that there are a lot of assumptions here. The situations where the "experience" comes before safety, thats something you may see with unassisted birth, but not hb thats covered by insurance, with a CPM or CNM. <BR/><BR/>These types of hb practices have very stringent low risk requirements. The midwives are trained to see problems very early, they can be very conservative. They have physician back up. In reality, unless you are having a sched. c/section, in the hospital you are really being attended by l&d nurses. A midwife has a lot more training than an l&d nurse. You are counting on your nurse to keep your doctor updated. At a homebirth, you have an expert in normal birth with you, she is watching you closely & knows what to look for to help you transfer safely if you need to. At that point, if its necessary, a doctor shows up & meets you.<BR/><BR/>Can you give an example of a disaster that can happen at home with a CNM that can be avoided in the hospital? I get your point, but I don't think you will know for sure that the hospital could have saved the day. For example, cord prolapse, flipping to breech in labor, preclampsia, all of these have time on their side & are obvious to a trained midwife. That leaves placenta abruption or severe shoulder dystocia, both of which are very rare & especially, s.d., can be equally fatal in hospitals, if its a severe enough case.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9504620.post-4685361227352745592007-03-13T03:12:00.000+00:002007-03-13T03:12:00.000+00:00Of course people who have great home births sing t...Of course people who have great home births sing their praises. I imagine if all goes well it IS more intimate and cozy and comfortable than a hospital. Most of them do go well. But if you are one of the people for whom immediate access to the latest in technology and medical knowledge matters, that is really scant consolation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9504620.post-40556257985205900572007-03-13T03:11:00.000+00:002007-03-13T03:11:00.000+00:00you missed my point. I was saying that if you exam...you missed my point. I was saying that if you examine each case I am betting that you would find a good portion of the homebirth deaths are directly related to not being able to IMMEDIATELY get emergency care underway (sometimes even five minutes is the difference between life and death and remember things can happen very fast and very unexpectedly). Whereas you do not have that factor in a hospital birth. With both, yes you can have human error or inevitability which doesnt speak so much for home vs hospital birth as for the individual attendants involved in cases where that would have mattered. BUT in the number of cases where the time, even if short, taken to transfer to the hospital is what made the difference then yes, it IS the fault of homebirth,no matter how good the midwife. And I would also imagine that OBs are more practiced at detected things in need of immediate action whereas I would imagine a common midwife error is trying to "let nature take its course" for too long. I believe that happens more than you think because they are so primed against intervention that they see potentially dangerous situations as no big deal. Of course you would say that a doctor would see danger where a "wait and see" attitude would be better but I think the potential for SERIOUS consequences (not just a "disappointing birth experience") is much greater with the midwives error than the doctors. I don't buy it. It defies common sense. Homebirth advocates with all their "birth is natural, birth is healthy, blah blah blah" seem to forget just how unbelievably high maternal and newborn death rates were prior to the advent of modern obstetrics.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9504620.post-40870054361303191122007-03-12T19:48:00.000+00:002007-03-12T19:48:00.000+00:00"I am betting the hospital horror stories are eith..."I am betting the hospital horror stories are either inevitable no matter what or..." same is true for homebirth.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9504620.post-74057086269775170322007-03-12T18:38:00.000+00:002007-03-12T18:38:00.000+00:00I think anyone having a homebirth is foolish but s...I think anyone having a homebirth is foolish but someone with medical issues that put them "at risk" even considering it is even MORE foolhardy. I just can't even imagine entertaining that sort of thought for the sake of ideology.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9504620.post-77218014612115783412007-03-12T18:37:00.000+00:002007-03-12T18:37:00.000+00:00And I think it is important to separate out those ...And I think it is important to separate out those things that were inevitable from things that have a reasonable cause. I realize this may not be something that someone who has had a baby die wants to think about BUT to continue to promote something that played a role in the tragedy is ignorant at best, criminal at worst. True, some things one might never know but others there is a pretty damn good educated guess. It is ALSO important to weed out staff incompetence from the nature of the birth environment itself: things that no matter how skilled the practitioner are still there. I am betting the hospital horror stories are either inevitable no matter what or due to incompetence. Some homebirth horrors probably are simply incompetence which can happen anywhere but some are also no doubt the consequence of not having emergency facilities IMMEDIATELY at hand (and a five minute drive can most definately matter when seconds count) Things can go very wrong very very fast and very very unexpectedly. And if the equipment and facilities are not right there, then you may have lost your window of opportunity.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9504620.post-58109189173458826152007-03-12T18:32:00.000+00:002007-03-12T18:32:00.000+00:00In the internet research spawned by this post on m...In the internet research spawned by this post on my behalf I uncovered a lovely comment by a homebirth midwife that was to the effect of "some women might have died birthing at home but oh well, the number is small so no big". Now that is not the exact quote but thats the general sentiment. I can ONLY imagine the uproar if that statement had come from a male OB instead of a female homebirth midwife. I find it repulsive when, as long as the numbers are low enough, even a few people are considered an OK sacrifice for an ideological cause. And it seems that the data get tweaked around a lot more in some sectors than others.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9504620.post-80539856080088044542007-03-12T03:29:00.000+00:002007-03-12T03:29:00.000+00:00and I don't know why that posted twice...:)and I don't know why that posted twice...:)clarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10765926746058915959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9504620.post-17829521388276553072007-03-12T03:28:00.001+00:002007-03-12T03:28:00.001+00:00I agree, it would be a nightmare to have something...I agree, it would be a nightmare to have something happen at home that could be prevented in the hospital. Yet, many disasters are caused by interventions. I can think of 4 women in my support group that had disastrous outcomes due to overzealous medical staff. I'll spare the details so as not to freak out the pregnant people. <BR/><BR/>There are a few OB emergencies left that are severe and have about the same chances of outcome wherever the birth place is. In my case, the hospital could not help me. So, I feel for homebirthers who feel like its their fault when things go wrong. A mother will usually find a way to blame themselves no matter what.<BR/><BR/>I can tell some of this flipness is coming from those who haven't been there. None of us have any way of knowing what would have worked in any situation. Maybe a midwife could save the day in a birth where a doctor would have panicked? Or vice versa. Unless it is your birth, you don't know.clarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10765926746058915959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9504620.post-17255704155897577792007-03-12T03:28:00.000+00:002007-03-12T03:28:00.000+00:00I agree, it would be a nightmare to have something...I agree, it would be a nightmare to have something happen at home that could be prevented in the hospital. Yet, many disasters are caused by interventions. I can think of 4 women in my support group that had disastrous outcomes due to overzealous medical staff. I'll spare the details so as not to freak out the pregnant people. <BR/><BR/>There are a few OB emergencies left that are severe and have about the same chances of outcome wherever the birth place is. In my case, the hospital could not help me. So, I feel for homebirthers who feel like its their fault when things go wrong. A mother will usually find a way to blame themselves no matter what.<BR/><BR/>I can tell some of this flipness is coming from those who haven't been there. None of us have any way of knowing what would have worked in any situation. Maybe a midwife could save the day in a birth where a doctor would have panicked? Or vice versa. Unless it is your birth, you don't know.clarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10765926746058915959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9504620.post-33388797922970161232007-03-12T02:38:00.000+00:002007-03-12T02:38:00.000+00:00If what happened in a homebirth could have been pr...If what happened in a homebirth could have been prevented by medical intervention in a hospital you betcha you should be blaming yourself. Better to accept the blame and heal from it rather than spending your whole life in denial and never healing. Sometimes things just happen however its hard to rationalize that in the case of a homebirth where the circumstances were something that would have had at least a fighting chance in a hospital.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9504620.post-63236116895378674102007-03-11T23:08:00.000+00:002007-03-11T23:08:00.000+00:00PS to comment above...And, of course, personal fin...PS to comment above...<BR/><BR/>And, of course, personal finances (insurance) matter in the US. My anesthesia bill alone (epidural and c-section) was over $3,000! Our insurance covered it but I had a woman in my pre-natal yoga class who is footing her birth bill without insurance and so far I don't want to tell her that my hospital birth bills were around $12K.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9504620.post-83826058184365012632007-03-11T23:07:00.000+00:002007-03-11T23:07:00.000+00:00After I lost my baby, I went to an infant loss sup...After I lost my baby, I went to an infant loss support group & one of mom had lost a baby in a homebirth and the other 20 mothers lost their babies in hospital births. Bad outcomes happen in both places & sometimes there really is no one to blame, not even yourself. <BR/><BR/>Some of the comments on here are pretty hurtful to moms who did lose babies. If it happens in the hospital, do you just blame the dr? What about blaming yourself for picking an idiot for a doctor?But if it happens at home, you "never forgive yourself?" Doesn't that depend on what happens?clarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10765926746058915959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9504620.post-84090137302959628082007-03-11T23:01:00.000+00:002007-03-11T23:01:00.000+00:00IMO, you are more than likely going to end up with...IMO, you are more than likely going to end up with some type of intervention (epidural, c-section) if you deliver in a hospital and are not laboring in a very specific way (the best would be to admit at least 4+ cm dilated). I had planned for "natural" and ended up very "un" natural. The epidural was okay (I have a big fear of such procedures) as was the recovery from the c-section. I think that Katie is strong willed enough to deliver naturally in a hospital but for me since this was my first I was very susceptible to the hospital culture of intervention.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9504620.post-77984884022675404492007-03-11T18:34:00.000+00:002007-03-11T18:34:00.000+00:00I can give you a hospital horror story right now. ...I can give you a hospital horror story right now. My daughter almost died from the general anesthesia used during my c-section. CPR was performed for a full three minutes before she began to breath. <BR/><BR/>When I finally saw her, over a day after she was born, she had a scalpel slice on her leg.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9504620.post-52467640937686696142007-03-11T04:08:00.000+00:002007-03-11T04:08:00.000+00:00To the anon who said to google "homebirth horror s...To the anon who said to google "homebirth horror stories"--do you assume there are no hospital birth horror stories? NO provider and NO location can guarantee a great birth experience or a happy outcome. Statistically, out-of-hospital births are safe choices for many women. It is so that hospitals could deal better with some complications that may arise, but it's also true that hospital interventions can themselves cause complications. It's not as simple as the hospital being a safer place for all women.<BR/><BR/>As far as going home from a birth center: I've worked with a freestanding birth center for five years. I've had four births: one hospital, one homebirth and two in freestanding birth centers. By far the worst, postpartum-wise, was when I went home 30 hours or so after the hospital birth. By that point my adrenaline levels had leveled off and I was exhausted and really hurting. I went home four hours and six hours after my birth center births, when I was still feeling great and riding that post-birth hormone high. It was wonderful to get settled in at home so quickly, and the midwives visited me the next day and two days after that. (and I had plenty of at-home help with the other kids) I understand the reluctance to get up and go somewhere so soon after giving birth, but in my experience it was better than waiting a day and then going home, particularly since my bed was a lot more comfortable than the hospital's. The experience I've had at the freestanding birth center is that most women are eager to go home after a few hours. The only thing I would have liked to have at home is one of those mechanical beds so I didn't have to sit up and lay down on my own!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04511646819476886703noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9504620.post-81120627795709161542007-03-10T21:27:00.000+00:002007-03-10T21:27:00.000+00:00I don't think you should judge the South by the co...I don't think you should judge the South by the comments on this board.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9504620.post-15790745729013685932007-03-10T19:12:00.000+00:002007-03-10T19:12:00.000+00:00I would suggest that one google "homebirth horror ...I would suggest that one google "homebirth horror stories" if you would like to see how horribly wrong things can go far from a hospital, things that most likely would have been taken care of immediately if one WERE in a hospital. I also fail to see how "increased risk of stillbirth" is mutually exclusive of "no added risks during birth". Home birth advocates do not tell you this. I gave birth in two different hospitals on two sides of the country and I can assure you that NO ONE was trying to pump me full of as many medications as possible. If anything I remember distinctly BEGGING a doctor for a c section at a moment of pain during my first birth (obviously out of my right mind) and she quickly assured me that it was serious surgery and would only be done if medically neccessary. I remember especially the first time (the second I sort of ignored the input because I had done this before) feeling quite a bit of pressure to NOT use drugs. It was kinda like yeah we have them but you got the idea only a real wimp would actually want them. Now it may be that the south is a totally different animal from the rest of the country. In fact it wouldn't surprise me at all.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9504620.post-92127920253196973592007-03-10T16:45:00.000+00:002007-03-10T16:45:00.000+00:00I work with many women who have birthing center bi...I work with many women who have birthing center births. All are thrilled with the experience and having that calm atmosphere a birth center. The whole staff is on the same page as you. There is no explaining what you can ease your mind and enjoy the birth without being undermined by staff and enjoy the non-interventionist standard of care. <BR/><BR/>People hire a postpartum doula to help them so the transition to home immediately after the birth is much smoother and they are taken care of at home. <BR/><BR/>The doula will also take care of your family (cook, laundry, tidy up, run errands) keep life moving along while you, Jon and the kids are in bed taking care of baby. <BR/> <BR/>You do not need a hospital or a hospital staff; so then there is no reason to go to the hospital, and if you need one the birth center is near one. <BR/><BR/> Birth center with a postpartum doula for the week you get home is the smart way to go to have a normal birth.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9504620.post-25001183365743266232007-03-10T05:12:00.000+00:002007-03-10T05:12:00.000+00:00Also, I want to note that I agree with the idea of...Also, I want to note that I agree with the idea of seeking a middle ground.<BR/><BR/>The Birth Experience is not the point of the exercise here, but that doesn't mean you're being unreasonable to say, "Hey, you know, I don't want to give birth at a hospital where I'm going to be rushed from room to room as I'm starting to push, and pressured to accept medical interventions that I neither want nor need."<BR/><BR/>I had very positive experiences at two different hospitals in my city. I was treated with respect and consideration, I was not pressured to accept interventions that weren't necessary, people read my birth plan and abided by my wishes (which were things like, "Please don't offer me pain medication; I'll ask for it if I decide I want it"), I was able to eat and drink freely, etc. This should be the norm in childbirth. None of these things impose some major hardship on my caregivers. When all someone wants is the option to be supported in the choice to labor without medication, it appalls me when she gets lectures about how it's really the outcome that counts. <I>The mother's health is part of the outcome that counts.</I>Naomihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16235581646855322094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9504620.post-40608264670728311622007-03-10T05:04:00.000+00:002007-03-10T05:04:00.000+00:00Have you considered hiring a doula? That makes th...Have you considered hiring a doula? That makes the lack of nurse support less of an issue.Naomihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16235581646855322094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9504620.post-29765816594740166842007-03-10T03:25:00.000+00:002007-03-10T03:25:00.000+00:00I delivered at Ft. Sanders with the help of Lisa R...I delivered at Ft. Sanders with the help of Lisa Ross midwives. It went fine, and the birthing unit there is actually really nice. The benefits of delivering at the Lisa Ross Center are those concerning the freedom to move about and whatnot. Still, as you pointed out, they encourage you to move homeward in a timely manner, and this can be an exhausting proposition right after you have given birth. My midwives encouraged me to exit the hospital ASAP after delivery, but it was much more calming for me to stay for two days and get to know my new kid (they had no problem letting her stay with me) and drink all of the unit's juice (man, I drank sooo much juice) without having to directly transition back into the real world constraints of my household. This is merely anecdotal, but the real problem about modern, medicalized births is that such practices originated in "new" ideals that ignored the time-tested methods employed by midwivery pre-female medicical attention. This is certainly a feminist concern, but hospital birthing centers are starting to incorporate more traditional mthods in their practices. Of course, it is a trade-off; one cannot expect a Doctor or hospital to not take all of the percived precautions available, given the high rates of malpractice insurance. And, of course, this is why midwivery birthing centers usually only accept low risk births, while still maintaining a quick connection with medical expertise in case something goes wrong. The feminist "intuition" about birthing seems to be, at least, a little inconsistent in relation to other medical practices. Yes, we desire the safest practices available, and, by extension, we want those practices to be submitted to scientifically well-founded tests. Still, many "feminists" (not derogatory, I consider myself a 'feminist') wish to relegate their birthing concerns to midwives who espouse doubt about medicalized practices. There's got to be a middle ground here. I worry that birthing itself has become some kind of identity-conferring function in such a way that it distorts the importance of the process. Yes, labor is hard. Yes, carrying a child is uncomfortable, if not very difficult. Yes, yes, yes-but still, the carrying and delivery of a child is one of the very few natural facts in life pertaining exclusively to women. Still, the midwives of yore were probably not too concerned with ideal birthing experiences as much as ensuring that mother and child survive. It seems as if we're in a time now when the "birthing experience" has trancended all of the practical concerns that surrounded midwivery practices in times past. TBC...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9504620.post-29238689397974954352007-03-10T03:24:00.000+00:002007-03-10T03:24:00.000+00:00I don't think I'll ever understand why so many peo...<I>I don't think I'll ever understand why so many people think an epidural sounds great.</I><BR/><BR/>Maybe for the same reason anesthesia sounds great when you're having a limb amputated. Duh.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9504620.post-61894053306487113342007-03-09T23:56:00.000+00:002007-03-09T23:56:00.000+00:00kate,i will be sending you good thoughts and praye...kate,<BR/>i will be sending you good thoughts and prayer...i trust that the universe will send you to the right place, whereever that may be<BR/>erikaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com