tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9504620.post115566121223560904..comments2023-10-31T12:05:02.496+00:00Comments on katieallisongranju: Jane is 11 today !!!!Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9504620.post-1155822184546247102006-08-17T13:43:00.000+00:002006-08-17T13:43:00.000+00:00Anonymous: "Some people believe it is okay to wait...Anonymous: "Some people believe it is okay to wait a few months into the babies life and if anything shows up in that time that infanticide is perfectly acceptable."<BR/><BR/>"Some people" believe this, huh? Minus 50 points for the crappily constructed straw man argument... but plus 5 for making it so entertainingly hysterical.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9504620.post-1155768888229992402006-08-16T22:54:00.000+00:002006-08-16T22:54:00.000+00:00well what about if you dont know about the disabil...well what about if you dont know about the disability before the child is born? some things cant be detected. what then? do you kill the newborn? some people believe it is okay to wait a few months into the babies life and if anything shows up in that time that infanticide is perfectly acceptable. <BR/>and again, what if the doctors are wrong and you abort a perfectly healthy baby? too bad so sad. it has happened many many times that what the doctors predict prenatally fails to materialize. <BR/>and as for the variances in culture...did it ever cross your mind that some cultures have better moral values than others??? <BR/>are we supposed to understand a culture that kills the wife when the husband dies so that she can be cremated with her husband? are we supposed to understand female genital mutilation? no its usually people who are talking the most about cultural relatavism who suddenly get very absolute when the barbarism present in some other cultures is presented. we here in america are not exempt from barbarism. killing a baby in its mothers womb is pretty barbaric if you ask me. and talk about a "slippery slope". and what of things like down syndrome which some folks might not want but so many others find these children to be a blessing. you might find it interesting that many of the diabled themselves, who might otherwise be quite liberal, are pretty dismayed at the idea of aborting the disabled. it is saying that they are meaningless and would be better off dead, a decision their parents could easily have made for them had they been so inclined. <BR/>I wonder what Katie will do if as her daughter gets older as she ponders her life and the chance she got at if she becomes very pro life.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9504620.post-1155755483731249032006-08-16T19:11:00.000+00:002006-08-16T19:11:00.000+00:00Question for anonymous commenter above: You say t...Question for anonymous commenter above: You say that "inherent in our actions is responsibility towards others. and that includes not killing children just because they aren't born yet." Does responsibility toward others also include not bringing a baby into the world if he or she is going to suffer miserably with severe birth defects? Does it include not bearing a child whom one cannot take care of? I would argue that those are responsible choices, too.<BR/><BR/>Also, women don't have abortions "just because [the babies] aren't born yet." Just so you know, it's possible to be against abortion and still recognize that women often have valid reasons to terminate their pregnancies.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9504620.post-1155751732994643002006-08-16T18:08:00.000+00:002006-08-16T18:08:00.000+00:00most-recent-anon-er: the concept of who has "right...most-recent-anon-er: the concept of who has "rights" and who does not is always open to debate - there is no universal rule (about that or anything else, really) - "rights" vary from culture to culture, society to society, era to era.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9504620.post-1155749871491698892006-08-16T17:37:00.000+00:002006-08-16T17:37:00.000+00:00no women arent "incubators" but because there IS a...no women arent "incubators" but because there IS a life in there then that life has rights too. it just fries me when, depending on if the child is "wanted" it can be a crime to kill it in the womb, if say, it is done by the carelessness of another driver for instance. but if the woman wants to get rid of it herself and drives herself over to the abortion clinic then its all perfectly legal and acceptable. inherent in our actions is responsibility towards others. and that includes not killing children just because they arent born yet. <BR/>I find it amazing that some of the people who bray the loudest about children not being "property" once they are here have no problem considering the value of the child in the womb to be completely based on whether the mother wants it there or not. as far as potentially disabled children go..the number of times the doctors predictions are wrong and either the child is perfectly fine or the "tragic" situation turns out to be something very very mild should be reason enough to not abort a child because of disabilityAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9504620.post-1155749818545429632006-08-16T17:36:00.000+00:002006-08-16T17:36:00.000+00:00no women arent "incubators" but because there IS a...no women arent "incubators" but because there IS a life in there then that life has rights too. it just fries me when, depending on if the child is "wanted" it can be a crime to kill it in the womb, if say, it is done by the carelessness of another driver for instance. but if the woman wants to get rid of it herself and drives herself over to the abortion clinic then its all perfectly legal and acceptable. inherent in our actions is responsibility towards others. and that includes not killing children just because they arent born yet. <BR/>I find it amazing that some of the people who bray the loudest about children not being "property" once they are here have no problem considering the value of the child in the womb to be completely based on whether the mother wants it there or not. as far as potentially disabled children go..the number of times the doctors predictions are wrong and either the child is perfectly fine or the "tragic" situation turns out to be something very very mild should be reason enough to not abort a child because of disabilityAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9504620.post-1155742611255636022006-08-16T15:36:00.000+00:002006-08-16T15:36:00.000+00:00This and another story I heard recently of a mothe...This and another story I heard recently of a mother who chose to give birth when predictions were awful, are why the abortion issue is such an important one. The woman will have beliefs from her upbringing, her doctor will give facts, her friends and family will have input, but only the mother can make this choice. I believe in the sanctity of mother and child. But the living, breathing woman is the one who is the most important in this equation. We are not incubators to let others decided what is best for us. Happy Birthday, Jane and you go granpa!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9504620.post-1155735882178838952006-08-16T13:44:00.000+00:002006-08-16T13:44:00.000+00:00Katie, a reminder from your 88 year old grandpa .....Katie, a reminder from your 88 year old grandpa ... You failed to mention in your excellent essay the fact that in the days preceding little Jane's birth, there were literally thousands of prayers from across the country asking for a safe and healthy birth. Leading some of these were very respected physicians. Just recently I had two doctors in the Vanderbilt Cancer Clinic voluntarily tell me they were praying for me. Recently in a hospital emergency room, I had the attending physician ask me if he could pray for me, this in front of his nurses and others. My point, more and more medical folk are realizing they sometimes need more than medical expertise to cope with extreme situations. One physician still carries a small picture of Jane in his bill fold to remind him that there is help available beyond the textbooks. Yes, I realize this comment is a little out of place with some of the readers of your blog, but at 88 I can pretty well say what I damn well please. Don't talk back to your elders!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9504620.post-1155680652261520902006-08-15T22:24:00.000+00:002006-08-15T22:24:00.000+00:00What a beautiful essay.I had an experience with my...What a beautiful essay.<BR/><BR/>I had an experience with my first pregnancy when I was told that there was a small chance my baby would have trisomy 13. After a long weekend, I decided not to even have the amino done to be certain. I realized even if the diagnosis were certain, I could not end my baby's life. Though I am pro-choice, I really felt it was not my right to end this pregnancy, but to instead give my daughter's life a chance. <BR/><BR/>I would not force others to make the same decision I did. It is really a personal feeling.<BR/><BR/>My daughter is 10 now and perfectly healthy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9504620.post-1155678325577345572006-08-15T21:45:00.000+00:002006-08-15T21:45:00.000+00:00I've never had to make the choice and am torn betw...I've never had to make the choice and am torn between mother's rights and the baby's rights-You argued both sides of the case very well for Jane- I just wondered if it had changed your outlook. This was a topic of conversation yesterday _BTW. I was looking into amembership at Curves (a ladies gym) and it seems the founder (male) is radically anti- choice. So the debate continues - do business with a company that goes too far in my opinion or find one less suited to my needs?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9504620.post-1155674832960229362006-08-15T20:47:00.000+00:002006-08-15T20:47:00.000+00:00Mary - I am even more strongly pro-choice today th...Mary - I am even more strongly pro-choice today than I was 11 years ago. The key word is "choice." I made my decision and it was the right one for me and my family. Would I feel the same way if my child had arrived severely disabled, mentally and physically? If she suffered? I don't know.Juliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04704163845968356340noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9504620.post-1155671113375481562006-08-15T19:45:00.000+00:002006-08-15T19:45:00.000+00:00you wrote :"Considering the circumstances, she opi...you wrote :"Considering the circumstances, she opined, no one could blame me for whatever decision I felt was right. Her stunning hypocrisy angered me. Despite her stated views, she was conveniently able to allow for choice in this issue when the woman in question was someone she loved."<BR/>Hate the sin not the sinner....Do you still consider ourself pro- choice, having faced this situation and realized you couldn't make that choice?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9504620.post-1155670605218853612006-08-15T19:36:00.000+00:002006-08-15T19:36:00.000+00:00Sitting here in tears this afternoon. That's a fa...Sitting here in tears this afternoon. That's a fabulous essay, Katie, thanks for sharing that. And happy birthday to Jane (and happy day to you).Lynnsterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05417014594378784447noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9504620.post-1155667078294063262006-08-15T18:37:00.000+00:002006-08-15T18:37:00.000+00:00Katie, thank you for sharing Jane's story. It is a...Katie, thank you for sharing Jane's story. It is amazing. I would have struggled with "the decision" just as hard as you did.<BR/><BR/>Jane is lucky to have you as her mother.Katharine O'Moore-Klopfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14699159708036532202noreply@blogger.com